PD ROM 1/PD ROM Volume I - Macintosh Software from BMUG (1988).iso/Electronic Messages/USEnet Digests/USEnet Vol. 4/USEnet 4.31

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Usenet Mac Digest     Saturday, March 5, 1988        Volume 4 : Issue 31

Today's Topics:
     Re: SAS/Graph on a Mac
     Re: A/UX disk I/O (real numbers)
     Re: How about Epsilon for the MAC?
     A/UX troff (was Re: A/UX disk I/O (real numbers))
     Re: A/UX disk I/O (real numbers)
     WriteNow->MS Word?
     Re: SoundCap (Formerly: Short review of MacRecorder, by Farallon)
     Re: WriteNow format needed
     A/UX window systems, Mac toolbox, etc
     Re: A/UX disk I/O (real numbers)
     A/UX comments
     Plotter file (multi-pen) output to LW or LQ printers?
     New MacPaint core dumps/freezes under A/UX
     Re: Software for the Mac -- recommendations wanted.
     Maybe I'm dumb but...
     Software for the Mac: spreadsheets

----------------------------------------------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Tom Cole)
Subject: Re: SAS/Graph on a Mac
Date: 23 Feb 88 15:13:33 GMT
Organization: SAS Institute Inc.,Cary NC,25712

Gosh, I hate to eat my words.  Here's the deal on a SAS/Graph
application. We (that is SAS Institute) will develope a Technical Report
that will include a Mac diskette with the application on it.  The Tech
report will explain how it works, etc.  It will be distributed by SAS,
and will cost nearly nothing (less than $20, I believe), mostly to cover
cost of publication and distribution.

So Don't Send Me A Disk.  If it's too late, I'll mail it back with what
I have so far, but it won't be pretty.  I'll post again as soon as the
kit is ready (a few weeks at most, mostly for printing time) etc.

However, if you have any requests for features or opinions about what
file formats should be output, etc., please let me know Real Soon Now.

I apologize if this has turned into a business deal on the net, it is
our intention to provide this feature as cheaply as distribution will
allow, and give equal access to all our customers (USENET and
non-USENET).


A secondary unrelated question, that is purely hypothetical. ;-)  Is
there any interest in a full front-end workstation implementation of the
SAS/RLink protocol for Macs?  By this I mean a Mac editor window, and
nice Mac windows for SAS output, logs, and graphs?  No local processing,
but full Remote Submit, etc.?  If you have SAS and don't understand what
I am talking about, find someone who has PC SAS and ask about remote
submit.  We are discussing the possibility of such an project and I
would  be very interested in any responses to the idea.
--

Tom Cole
VAX/VMS Host Group
SAS Institute Inc.
PO Box 8000
Cary NC 27512-8000

[phone] x7642

My opinions ARE those of my employer, but they just don't realize it yet...


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Brian Martin)
Subject: Re: A/UX disk I/O (real numbers)
Date: 25 Feb 88 10:39:47 GMT
Organization: U. of Hawaii, Manoa (Honolulu)

Actually, they did go for the Berkeley file system. I was at an A/UX
demo last week, and managed to corner their engineer. It turns out that
they are using an antiquated version of the Berkeley file system, back
before symbolic pointers were introduced.

Some other interesting points...  Although Apple bundles in the
Documenter's Work Bench, their troff doesn't produce Postscript output.
You still need to buy one of the 3rd-party troff packages that supports
Postscript.

The "site license" for A/UX is $25,000. But they didn't know how a site
license would be handled, e.g., whether one Apple-supplied disk would be
sold to the user, from which multiple copies of A/UX would be loaded
onto other disks.

Security might be a problem. It seems that you could boot the Mac OS,
then use a Mac program to scan and modify i-node information on the A/UX
disk, effectively bypassing the /etc/passwd and /etc/group protections.
The Apple engineer didn't have a good answer to this potential problem;
perhaps someone else does.
--
Regards,
    Brian K. Martin, M.D.

ARPA:  uhccux!medix![e-mail]
UUCP:  { ihnp4,ucbvax,dcdwest,uunet }!ucsd!nosc!uhccux!medix!martin


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Ken Mitchum)
Subject: Re: How about Epsilon for the MAC?
Date: 25 Feb 88 16:59:13 GMT
Organization: Decision Systems Lab., Univ. of Pittsburgh, PA.

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail] (Joseph Nathan Hall)
writes:
>Does anyone know whether Lugaru is going to support Epsilon for the Mac, or
>whether something similar is/will be available?

MacJove (Jove 4.9) will be available VERY soon. It retains all the
traditional key bindings, plus the use of menus and window controls. It
will be free.

-Ken Mitchum
 Univ of Pgh
 Decision Systems Lab


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (J Greely)
Subject: A/UX troff (was Re: A/UX disk I/O (real numbers))
Date: 26 Feb 88 03:49:32 GMT
Organization: Giant Robots 'r' us

In article <[e-mail]> uhccux!medix!martin (Brian K. Martin,
M.D.) writes:
>Some other interesting points...  Although Apple bundles in the
>Documenter's Work Bench, their troff doesn't produce Postscript
>output.  You still need to buy one of the 3rd-party troff packages that
>supports Postscript.

The product release that was posted a few weeks ago explicitly stated
that the TranScript package was included with A/UX.  This includes a set
of filters that transforms Troff output to PostScript.  It's not as good
as having a native PostScript version, but it works quite nicely.

  The only problem I've had with using TranScript (on a Sun 3/50) is
that the pscat filter (C/A/T to PostScript) seems to have some
misconceptions about page size (troff -man -t foo.1 | pscat | lpr should
print a manual page for foo, but the page footers disappear).
--
-=-
                      -j,  [e-mail]
"Tandoori to go.  That's all they went out for, these people... Tandoori
 to go... and *instead*, they... they got..."  -- Watchmen
 -----


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Pierce T. Wetter)
Subject: Re: A/UX disk I/O (real numbers)
Date: 26 Feb 88 00:33:02 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology

>
>Security might be a problem. It seems that you could boot the Mac OS,
>then use a Mac program to scan and modify i-node information on the
>A/UX disk, effectively bypassing the /etc/passwd and /etc/group
>protections. The Apple engineer didn't have a good answer to this
>potential problem; perhaps someone else does.
>

  On any unix system this is a problem. Go up to a micro version of
unix. Reboot from a floppy with a small unix kernel on it. (say XENIX
and the XENIX distribution disk). you will now be superuser. Edit the
/etc/passwd file so that root has no password. Reboot. Anytime anyone
has full access to a system you don't have security. That's why god
created machine rooms.

  Note that the above instructions were taken from the Microsoft XENIX
manual What to do if you Forget the SuperUser Password. Bozos.
 Pierce Wetter

Today's scientific question is: What in the world is electricity?

And where does it go after it leaves the toaster?
        -- Dave Barry, "What is Electricity?"
--
--------------------------------------------

[e-mail]

--------------------------------------------


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Richard Siegel)
Subject: WriteNow->MS Word?
Date: 26 Feb 88 17:08:26 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University


Does anyone have or know of a conversion utility to take WriteNow files
and  convert them to MS Word 3.0 format? I have some largish (50+ pages)
WN docs  full of graphics, and I'd like to minimize the pain.

    Rich
--
===================================================================
Richard Siegel
Confused Undergrad, Carnegie-Mellon University

The opinions stated here do not represent the policies
of Carnegie-Mellon University.

Arpa: [e-mail]
UUCP: {decvax,ucbvax,sun}!andrew.cmu.edu!rich.siegel
==================================================================


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Mike Spryn)
Subject: Re: SoundCap (Formerly: Short review of MacRecorder, by Farallon)
Date: 26 Feb 88 16:46:22 GMT
Organization: CCI, Communications Systems Division, Rochester, NY

In article <[e-mail]> [e-mail]
(Brian Campbell) writes:
>For those wondering what ever happened to SoundCap, the sound digitizer, it has
>been bought out by Impulse; it is now called Sound Wave.
      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
                          NOT TRUE!!!

Fractal Software, the author and STILL THE OWNER of SoundCap is alive!
Impulse (formerly MacNifty Central) did have exclusive right to sell
SoundCap.  Impulse has since come up with its own visual audio editor
called SoundWave.  Fractal Software and Impulse are no longer dealing
with each other.  The last time I talked to Fractal, they were busy (1)
enhancing SoundCap  (2) producing a clean port to Mac II (3) looking for
a new publisher.

Of all the visual audio editors that I have examined, I think SoundCap
has the nicest user interface for waveform editing.  (Waveform editing
is the primary task for my application.)

Fractal Software ( Tom Hedges or Mark Zimmer ) can be reached at:

   Fractal Software
   377 Bowen Ave.
   Aptos, CA  95003

   [phone]
--

Michael D. Spryn  -->   rutgers!rochester!cci632!spryn


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Edward Bertram Victor)
Subject: Re: WriteNow format needed
Date: 26 Feb 88 19:15:06 GMT
Organization: Carnegie Mellon University


I have gotten the WriteNow File Format for the Macintosh directly from
T/Maker.  They will galdly send you a copy. However, they do not
supposrt it, so you ren't supposed to  ask them any questions.  But they
do supply it.  It is accurate to the best of my knowledge;  I have used
the format extensively.
--
-- Ed Victor ([e-mail])
Carnegie Mellon University


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (John Gilmore)
Subject: A/UX window systems, Mac toolbox, etc
Date: 26 Feb 88 22:11:39 GMT
Organization: Grasshopper Group in San Francisco

[e-mail] (Phil Ronzone, A/UX Technical Manager) wrote:
> Remember - it is a Mac. Under A/UX or the Mac OS, you have the Toolbox
> and the Mac look and feel. Ain't nobody else got that ...

This claim requires some looking behind the hype.

Under the MacOS, you indeed get the Toolbox and the Mac look and feel.

Under A/UX, you can run a small subset of Mac applications -- the ones
that strictly follow the latest guidelines for cleanliness.  However,
there is no convenient way to transfer a Mac application from its home
on Mac floppies or hard disk, into the Unix file system.  There is a
program that will read 400K, non-HFS floppies and extract the files
therein.  There is *no* way to read standard 800K MacOS floppies, or an
HFS floppy, or an HFS disk partition, from Unix.  I suppose you could
get a second mac, and transfer the programs and all their data files
over with xmodem, but I doubt many people will bother.  It's easier to
shutdown A/UX and reboot the MacOS.

Under A/UX, you have access to the Toolbox.  It's a library in /lib. If
you have source for a Mac application, you can do some of the Toolbox
calls, compile it, link it with this library, and they work. However,
you can only run one such application at a time -- it takes over the
whole screen, and you can't get to Unix any more, except over the serial
ports or Ethernet.  No control-Z.  No multiple windows.  You are either
in the application or you are talking to a Unix shell, not both.  There
is no equivalent to "switcher" or "multifinder".

When you boot up A/UX, you get a "terminal emulator" on your screen.
This is just like the terminal emulator you get on a Sun before you
bring up the window system -- it looks like an ANSI terminal, with 35
lines and 89 columns, like a slightly bigger VT100.  However, they have
cleverly painted a mac-looking box around the outside of the terminal
emulator.  There's a menu bar at the top -- with all the words in grey.
You can't hit any of them.  There's a box around the terminal "window",
with a title bar.  You can't hit it.  There isn't even a mouse cursor.
This is a cute trick, but that's all it is.  It doesn't do any kind of
graphics, it's just a terminal.

So you say you want windows!  Well, Apple has provided them.  The single
Toolbox application, term, that comes with your A/UX port provides
multiple windows.   However, this is just more VT100's on your screen.
You can have up to 4 ANSI terminal emulators in a variety of sizes.
They can even overlap.  (They have to, unless you bought a third party
large monitor, or you like dinky VT100s.) There is no graphics support,
however, and you can't run any Mac applications because you are already
running a Toolbox program and you can only run one at a time.  I would
not call this a window system, certainly not in the sense of NeWS or X
or SunView or Andrew or the Apollo window system.  It's more like "uw".
Also, "term" is not a supported part of A/UX.  If you find bugs in it,
it's your problem.

Don't burn up a lot of money buying color graphics boards for your
Mac-II yet; A/UX doesn't support them.  If your color board supports
monochrome, A/UX can use it -- until you try a Toolbox application.  It
seems that frame buffer manufacturers have to alter the configuration
ROMs on their boards before A/UX can put up a mouse cursor.  Of course,
if your color board does not support a 1-bit mode, A/UX can't use it at
all.  And it can only handle one screen right now, even if you have
several.  They have promised to fix this Real Soon Now.

The Apple marketing effort here is a masterpiece of hype.  I have the
brochure they distributed at UniForum.  The outer folder ("There are
currently more than 50 types of UNIX in the world.") has four pictures
of Mac screens.  Three of them are running MacOS applications (one from
MultiFinder; the others we can't tell), and are photographed from
straight above the Mac, so you can barely see the screen.  The fourth is
running unavailable software from Brown University that brings up
pictures and text from British novels, using the Toolbox.  (By the way,
they are calling the Brown stuff "hypertext" and taking Ted Nelson's
name in vain.  It ain't hypertext, it's just hype.)

Contained in the folder is a short letter and three flyers.  The "Apple
A/UX Operating System" flyer has a single large picture: the Brown U.
software again (which is, of course, *not* in A/UX and not commercially
available either).  The "Macintosh II Personal Computer" flyer, for
once, is free of hype.  The "A/UX Support Services" flyer is headed by a
big picture of a mailing envelope with an "A/UX Update" tape hanging out
of it.  Of course, this tape is in the 40MB Apple SCSI tape format,
which is not supported by A/UX.

In their booth, Apple was demonstrating a version of X windows. However,
if pressed, they revealed that it was X.10, not X.11, that it was not
available for purchase, and would never be available; and that they
could not talk about possible release dates for X.11.

I'd hate to be totally negative in this article, so let me just say that
there *is* a window system for A/UX.  You just can't buy it from Apple.
We sell it; it's called MacNews, and it's a straight port of Sun's NeWS,
with all of NeWS's problems and all of NeWS's virtues.  The first test
copy went out last night, and it has a firm release date and a firm
price.

I'm a techie through and through and I hate to see people get away with
marketing bullshit.  If you buy A/UX, buy it because you know what you
are getting, not because you believed an Apple snow job.
--
{pyramid,ptsfa,amdahl,sun,ihnp4}!hoptoad!gnu              [e-mail]
        "Watch me change my world..." -- Liquid Theatre


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Fred Fish)
Subject: Re: A/UX disk I/O (real numbers)
Date: 26 Feb 88 15:04:33 GMT
Organization: occasionally

In article <[e-mail]>
[e-mail] (Matt Dillon) writes:
>  [references to an A/UX IO message I posted...  -fnf]
>    The new Fast File System for the Amiga will go at 75KBytes/sec.
>(600Kbps).  Also, the CLtd HD is the worst possible choice one can make
>for a comparison.

I neglected to point out to the comp.sys.mac readers, who probably
aren't at all familiar with the history of Amiga hard disks, that the
numbers I posted were VERY old, from one of the first hard disks
available.  I agree 100% that these numbers should not be used to make
comparisons between the two machines.  The Amiga situation has improved
considerably!  Sorry about any confusion...

-Fred
--
# Fred Fish    hao!noao!mcdsun!fishpond!fnf     [phone]
# Ye Olde Fishpond, 1346 West 10th Place, Tempe, AZ 85281  USA


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Mike Newton)
Subject: A/UX comments
Date: 27 Feb 88 11:03:12 GMT
Organization: California Institute of Technology


While I generally agree on John Gilmore's comments I want to point out
one small correction -- under the 'term' emulator package that comes w/
A/UX you can have far more than 4 vt100 windows.  However, note that
'term' is considered a demo program and is not supported.  I also find
it a little slow.

---

I have been a beta tester for A/UX and sent them about 35 bug reports --
bugs that hopefully have been fixed in the 'release' version.  Because
of the lack of tape drive (even assuming I could afford it), I have been
running 'un-backed-up' for many months now.  (Floppies are far too
painful). This does NOT leave me with a good feeling!  I have system
managed vaxen, suns and IBM mainframes.  I believe in backups.

Disk i/o is SLOW.  My hope is that someday (especially since Apples
share of the PC market has doubled in the last half-year) someone will
bring out a new SCSI port on a NuBus slot  -- along w/ the necessary
A/UX software.  I dont know why Apple left the DMA interrup line
unconnected, but I think it is the stupidest thing that....

Anyway, despite these two problems, I really like haveing A/UX at home.
It has allowed me to get a lot more work done than I would have
otherwise.
--
- mike

ps: John -- if you want someone to beta NeWS under A/uX, i'm interested!
ps: Coming soon -- the updated src/sysdep.c for Gnu Emacs 18.50 under A/UX.
--
[e-mail]    {ucbvax!cithep,amdahl}!cit-vax!newton
Caltech 256-80            818-356-6771 (afternoons,nights)
Pasadena CA 91125        Beach Bums Anonymous, Pasadena President

    "Reality is a lie that hasn't been found out yet..."


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Thomas Kurfurst)
Subject: Plotter file (multi-pen) output to LW or LQ printers?
Date: 27 Feb 88 07:25:26 GMT
Organization: University of Toronto Computing Services

How may one obtain plotter file output on Apple's Laser Writer or LQ
printer's? In other words how can obtain multi-pen (ie differing pen
width and/or colour) output on these printers.

Is it possible to setup/configure either of these printers to recognize
different pens in plotter files?

Does a program exist which may translate plotter files to a format
(ascii or postscript etc ...) that allows for multi-pen output on the
printers in question?

Any advice, pointers etc ... will be appreciated. Thanks!
--
________

Thomas Kurfurst      [e-mail] (CSnet,UUCP,Bitnet)
205 Wineva Road      [e-mail] (EANeX.400)
Toronto, Ontario     {decvax,ihnp4,utcsri,{allegra,linus}!utzoo}!utcs!kurfurst
CANADA M4E 2T5       [e-mail] (CSnet)
[phone]

________


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Mahboud Zabetian)
Subject: New MacPaint core dumps/freezes under A/UX
Date: 27 Feb 88 10:39:12 GMT
Organization: Advanced Technology, Princeton University


We just got the new Claris MacPaint today.  I loaded it up on A/UX, ran
it and guess what?  It ran.  It worked wonderfully;  I could paint, open
other files, save to the A/UX filesystem, etc....  It was too good to be
true!!

And then I tried to tear away the tear-away Tools menu.  Everything
froze for about a minute and then dumped core.

Next try I ran into a worse problem.  I closed all the MacPaint windows,
and went to the File menu to open a document, and-----ALL THE MENUS BUT
THE EDIT MENU WERE DISABLED!!!!!!  So I was stuck.  I couldn't even
quit.  So I had to log into A/UX over EtherNet and kill -9
pid(MacPaint)!!

Sounds like Claris isn't following the guidelines.  Uh oh.  (Claris,
I'll be available soon if you need any help :-)

ps. Under Mac OS if you close all windows, all menus but File are
disabled.  I guess A/UX mistakenly disables all but the next menu; the
Edit menu.
--
Mahboud Zabetian                [e-mail]
183 Little Hall                     [phone]
Princeton University, Princeton, NJ 08544        [phone]
****** Anyone need a soon-to-graduate hardware/software engineer? ********


------------------------------

From: cs224052@brap0929 (Scott Draves)
Subject: Re: Software for the Mac -- recommendations wanted.
Date: 25 Feb 88 02:45:26 GMT
Organization: SAE (Students against Education)


Chuq recommends Excel or Works for any spreadsheet users.

I have to disagree.  While Excel was the first real spreadsheet on the
Mac, and probably the most powerfull spreadsheet anywhere, that is all
you can say for it.  Its interface is a direct descendent of Visicalc,
down to the little bar at the top of the screen showing the current cell
contents.  Programming the spreadsheet is far better than it was on the
Apple II, but it still sucks.  I feel that a quantum leap is needed in
the spreadsheet market.  Excel is just another Microsoft IBM PC style
program on the Mac.

What to do until my dream spreadsheet appears? Try Trapeze.  I think it
is has a much better interface than Excel, despite its funny 'icon bar.'
 Trapeze was written on the Mac, for the Mac, by people who love the
Mac.  It shows.

-Scott


------------------------------

From: omh@nancy (Owen M. Hartnett)
Subject: Maybe I'm dumb but...
Date: 26 Feb 88 02:48:54 GMT
Organization: Brown University Computer Science Dept.

I can't figure out why this doesn't work:

Draw a Picture in MacPaint, save to Scrapbook, copy it out of Scrapbook
with ResEdit and paste into my application.

Still in ResEdit, open the picture (Open general) and alter the picFrame
rectangle so that it is relative to point 0,0 (i.e. change the left
coordinate to 0 and adjust the right coordinate so that it maintains the
same width, do likewise for top and bottom).

Now, from my application, Get the picture, and call
    DrawPicture(myPic,myPic^^.picFrame);

Now, wouldn't you expect the picture to get drawn in the upper left
corner of your window?  Nah...  It's somewhere in your window.

I've even done:

    FrameRect(myPic^^,picFrame);
    DrawPicture(myPic,myPic^^.picFrame);

and the Picture is *not* inside the Rectangle.

...and, if you try to install myPic in the windowPic field of your
window, you don't know where it's going to go, either.

Any ideas?
--
Owen Hartnett
Brown University Computer Science

[e-mail]
omh%cs.brown.edu
{ihnp4,allegra}!brunix!omh

"Don't wait up for me tonight because I won't be home for a month."
            -W.C. Fields


------------------------------

From: [e-mail] (Simon Tortike)
Subject: Software for the Mac: spreadsheets
Date: 27 Feb 88 19:12:40 GMT
Organization: U. of Alberta, Edmonton, AB

Someone earlier made a request for software suggestions for the
Macintosh. Amoung these was a request for spreadsheets.  Excel and a few
others were mentioned by various people, but I would like to promote the
spreadsheet program `Trapeze'.  I used Excel for about two years before
being shown Trapeze and I find that as someone who is quite comfortable
with linear algebra, Trapeze is much easier to comprehend.  Bar a few
inconsistancies, I could best describe it as APL on a spreadsheet, with
the added benefits of text fields and a far more sensible implementation
of plotting facilities than Excel or Chart.  All numbers are
two-dimensional arrays, usually named, and can be used as arrays in all
arithmetic on the worksheets.  The results are all autosized, as in APL.
 There is even a ravel function. My only complaint so far is the
convoluted way in which a trivial array  operation such as
  vector_a(index(i)) = vector_b(i) can be implemented, where i=1..n.  Of
course, I might be missing something trivial. Traditional spreadsheets
stick too close to the limitations of the original paper spreadsheet for
me, and appear to be designed for those who are not familiar with linear
algebra. I would like to hear from other users of  Trapeze, via e-mail,
and would like to see some discussion on the net of the merits and
deficiencies of spreadsheets in general.
--
  -------------------
W. Simon Tortike
Dept Min, Met &    UUCP:   ...{ubc-vision,ihnp4,mnetor}!alberta!simon
  Petroleum Engg   BITNET: stortike@ualtavm
Univ. of Alberta   AGT:    [phone]
Edmonton, AB
Canada T6G 2G6

------------------------------

End of Usenet Mac Digest
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